Check engine light came on.. Catalytic converter

[TallahasseeQX]

Just bought a used 2011 QX w/80,000 miles. SES light came on on the 150 mile ride home from the dealer I bought it from. I read every thread on this forum diligently before buying the vehicle. Told the dealer I was really hesitant to pull the trigger due to everything I've read about cats going bad. Dealer SAID he had it checked at a local muffler shop to try and ease my nerves. I'm skeptical.

On my way to my local Infiniti dealer this morning. I know I need to have the timing chain recall done anyway. Praying the SES isn't for those cats. Wish me luck!

 

[cbkqx56]

150 miles? Hmm that's either really bad luck or the dealer cleared a code before you drove it off the lot.

 

[TallahasseeQX]

150 miles? Hmm that's either really bad luck or the dealer cleared a code before you drove it off the lot.

Yeah that's my thinking too.

It WAS the Cat. I'm livid.

 

[marctronixx]

you will see more issues with the 11 models because of the interval of oil changes, timing issues which all affected the cats, plus it took a while for nissan to OK this timing issue, so this issue seems more direct to the timing issue.

i take it you did not purchase this as a CPO from an infiniti dealer? did you get a mechanic you trust to check it out before purchase?

since this happened under so little mileage after purchase, cant you just take it right back and get the dealer to remedy the situation? at least get them to do the troubleshooting.

taking it to infiniti is the right thing of course but dont let the stealer you bought it from off the hook...

______________________________

 

[TallahasseeQX]

It was not CPO, sadly. I couldn't find one in my price range that was. I knew I was taking a bit of a risk there.

I talked to the dealer I bought it from. He said even though you bought it as is, we'll take care of this for you since it happened so quickly (implying since it was sold that way). His remedy is for me to take it to a local muffler shop as he's convinced it's just a bad O2 sensor. He said those things go bad all the and then when Infiniti puts it on the diagnostic computer, it recommends that you change the whole CAT. Basically he's angling to replace the O2 sensor, but not the CAT.

I've seen a lot of banter on this thread and others about going to Infiniti vs a private mechanic. I haven't taken it to the mechanic yet, but Infiniti wants ~$2,700 to do the following:

Diagnostic - Check Engine Light: FOUND FAULT CODE WITH BANK 2 CATALYTIC CONVERTER -
WILL NEED NEW BANK 2 CAT., BANK 2 AF SENSOR, AND REPROGRAM ECM ( 4 WHEEL
DRIVE )

Thoughts?

I'll chime in with my recent issues.

I have a 2011 QX56, with 84,5xx miles. I have used premium fuel for every fill-up (sometimes 87 on long roadtrips) and I've changed the oil every 3500-4500 miles. The Service Engine light came on about 500 miles ago and I had my local trusted mechanic read the code and reset it. It was code P0420, which I googled and thankfully found a bunch of info on this forum. I was hoping the code was thrown because my wife didn't tighten the gas cap enough when she filled up, but unfortunately that wasn't it. A few days later the SES indicator lit up again.

So I took it to my local Infiniti dealer (Atlantic in JAX, FL). The service adviser seemed very familiar with the issue. She said since I was out of warranty, they couldn't do anything but provide a quote, but she suggested I call Infiniti Consumer Affairs to see if they could help out. I was expecting an estimate of over $3k, but they did me one better - over $4k plus tax! *UGH* This was for both converters.

I got home and put a call into Infiniti Consumer Affairs. They took my information and promised a callback by end of next day. Next day arrives and I get a call from the regional manager. She proceeds to read the cookie cutter response of "I'm sorry, but we cannot be of assistance, as the parameters of your warranty have expired". I made it clear that I wasn't happy, but I was expecting that response from all the google results with people having the same issue.

The rest of the afternoon was spent making phone calls. Jacksonville recently got a second Infiniti dealership (Orange Park), so I called them to get a quote. Turns out the old service manager runs this place and he was very helpful with information and a quote. His quote was roughly $3250 - WAY less than the other dealer. He was miffed how the other dealer came up with that high of number, but I didn't get the parts/labor breakdown from the dealer. Then I called a longstanding muffler shop here in town (Muffler City), and they said they've started to see a lot of these and did two QX56 catalytic converter swaps last week. For $1,250, they'll weld the catalytic converters off the existing manifolds and reinstall new ones with a 5yr/50K warranty. So I guess that saves big on the labor of having to breakdown the engine bay to replace the entire manifold.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I'm leaning towards the cheaper welded option. Any dealer work from here on out will be going to Orange Park Infiniti though - just based on the information I gleaned today!

Later,
pjdavep

What did you end up doing? Infiniti or Muffler City? If so, what was the final cost and how did it run afterwards?

 

[marctronixx]

you said $tealer told you a local muffler shop checked it out. well did you go to said muffler shop and verify? wonder if the muffler shop owner is good friends with the $tealer?

sounds like the $tealer bought this at some auction, so I wonder what the VIN/carfax history is on this car?

bottom line, the car should have the timing stuff done (sorry if you have posted you did that already) and the cats should be financed with some help from the $tealer. O2 sensors don't just "go bad all the time" on this car. running the car rich, bad timing, long intervals between oil changes can lead to these cats fouling and bad sensors.

the $tealer was ignorant in the history of this car or they did not do any due diligence on checking it out from bumper to bumper.

 

[0macman0]

I would like to add my experience to that of others on this thread. Back in April I bought a 2011 QX56 used with 71K miles on the clock. Everything seemed good minus the hesitation at times from the stretched timing chains. While I was waiting on a scheduled recall appointment, I got the catalytic inefficiency code for both catalytic converter banks. Vehicle currently around 85K miles. Both cats are dead, code comes back within a day. Obviously I opened a case with Infiniti customer affairs. No vehicle that is under 100K and under 6 years old should ever need cats! Of course their response was that they can't be of any assistance whatsoever at this time. And only 5K out of emissions warranty. Pretty lame. I also think it is absurd to deny the link between the timing chains stretching and the cats, they should never fail that early, unless something is causing abnormal combustion....... like having your cams out of phase. Running too rich or too lean maybe

 

[pjdavep]

What did you end up doing? Infiniti or Muffler City? If so, what was the final cost and how did it run afterwards?

I have yet to do anything about my cats. A month ago, I found out my Infiniti dealer will also sublet the work to a muffler shop down the street from them and it's slightly cheaper than Muffler City. Next time I go in there I'm going to ask if that would have any effect on me getting reimbursed for a possible recall down the road.

My cat starting throwing codes at 84K and I'm just over 100K now, so it hasn't even been 20K miles. The only danger of waiting is if the cat starts deteriorating and debris falls back into the engine. For much of my time during that 20k, my SES light would go out. Long road trips with high octane fuel and driving it like it was stolen seemed to clear the code for a few days.

Give Roger at Orange Park Infiniti a call. It's not too far a drive for you if you can't find service in Tally, and at the worst he may equip you with more knowledge/peace of mind

Later,
pjdavep

______________________________

 

[TallahasseeQX]

Thanks for the tip, but based on the price Roger quoted you he's a few hundred more than Tallahassee Infiniti quoted me. I also called a local muffler shop and he said the CAT alone would probably run more like $650 installed, and that he wouldn't "mess around with that welding nonsense...he'd 'do it right'" No idea what that means, but that price sounds awful cheap...perhaps too cheap. He did say he can't quote me an actual price until he sees it, and also that doesn't include sensors, if they need to be replaced, so the price could go up. He also told me (and maybe everyone knows this already) but he can't reprogram the ECM - only the dealer can do that. I got Infiniti to confirm that they would just do the ECM reprogram even if I don't get the CATS done there.

My other question though is you've driven with a bad CAT for close to 20K miles?!?!? That sounds way more (potentially) detrimental than you're letting on. Also, how is your fuel economy? One of the more obvious outcomes of a bad CAT would be less mpg. Have you noticed a difference? I'm getting 10-11 around town and 15ish on the highway...way lower than advertised.

 

[0macman0]

Thanks for the tip, but based on the price Roger quoted you he's a few hundred more than Tallahassee Infiniti quoted me. I also called a local muffler shop and he said the CAT alone would probably run more like $650 installed, and that he wouldn't "mess around with that welding nonsense...he'd 'do it right'" No idea what that means, but that price sounds awful cheap...perhaps too cheap. He did say he can't quote me an actual price until he sees it, and also that doesn't include sensors, if they need to be replaced, so the price could go up. He also told me (and maybe everyone knows this already) but he can't reprogram the ECM - only the dealer can do that. I got Infiniti to confirm that they would just do the ECM reprogram even if I don't get the CATS done there.

My other question though is you've driven with a bad CAT for close to 20K miles?!?!? That sounds way more (potentially) detrimental than you're letting on. Also, how is your fuel economy? One of the more obvious outcomes of a bad CAT would be less mpg. Have you noticed a difference? I'm getting 10-11 around town and 15ish on the highway...way lower than advertised.

A couple of thoughts, from an earlier post the dealer told you that it could be a bad o2 sensor. I promise you it's not. The ECM logic doesn't work that way and a bad sensor can't physically throw that code, it wouldn't throw anything. So let's get that dealer lie out of the way. Second you are egetting awful mileage. I've seen mine drop a couple MPG like 13 city 18 hey, sounds like yours is much worse.

you will see more issues with the 11 models because of the interval of oil changes, timing issues which all affected the cats, plus it took a while for nissan to OK this timing issue, so this issue seems more direct to the timing issue.

i take it you did not purchase this as a CPO from an infiniti dealer? did you get a mechanic you trust to check it out before purchase?

since this happened under so little mileage after purchase, cant you just take it right back and get the dealer to remedy the situation? at least get them to do the troubleshooting.

taking it to infiniti is the right thing of course but dont let the stealer you bought it from off the hook...

Tell me more about this oil change interval on the 11s and how it has since changed

 

[marctronixx]

what i mean by that is that infiniti was/is recommending 5- 7K miles on oil changes (from what I have read over the early years of this new design) and may people who purchased this would just take out on weekend trips, maybe a fancy grocery hauler, or soccer mom vehicle. drive it 10 miles ish, not letting the oil warm up and lube things properly, and things of that nature.

the DIG engine LIKES to be "italian tuned" from time to time ;-) as this helps burn off carbon deposits that collect just under the intake valves since the petrol coming into the chamber does not properly get to "wash" those carbons out (due to the DIG engine design) like on conventional designs.

ADD to THAT the timing chain debacle and you have a perfect recipe for these issues (fouled cats, plugs, oil sludge, etc).

many people buys these cars for special occasions as opposed to daily drivers and this seldom driving is not really good for these types of engines.

 

[TallahasseeQX]

Just bought a used 2011 QX w/80,000 miles. SES light came on on the 150 mile ride home from the dealer I bought it from. I read every thread on this forum diligently before buying the vehicle. Told the dealer I was really hesitant to pull the trigger due to everything I've read about cats going bad. Dealer SAID he had it checked at a local muffler shop to try and ease my nerves. I'm skeptical.

On my way to my local Infiniti dealer this morning. I know I need to have the timing chain recall done anyway. Praying the SES isn't for those cats. Wish me luck!

UPDATE:

Took it to a local muffler shop this morning, per the instructions of the dealer I bought it from. Diagnosed same as Infiniti..Bank 2 CAT + Bank 2 AF Sensor...quoted me $1,300 (versus $2,700ish by Infiniti). Much rather have Infiniti do the job but man, $1,400 difference is a TON of money.

Awaiting dealer's response on this info. Expecting them to pony up SOMETHING...hopefully they offer to split it with me if I go the muffler shop route.

______________________________

 

[0macman0]

UPDATE:

Took it to a local muffler shop this morning, per the instructions of the dealer I bought it from. Diagnosed same as Infiniti..Bank 2 CAT + Bank 2 AF Sensor...quoted me $1,300 (versus $2,700ish by Infiniti). Much rather have Infiniti do the job but man, $1,400 difference is a TON of money.

Awaiting dealer's response on this info. Expecting them to pony up SOMETHING...hopefully they offer to split it with me if I go the muffler shop route.

What mileage are you at? If you are over 80K it will be like squeezing blood from a turnip

 

[TallahasseeQX]

Yeah I'm just over 80k.

They've offered to pay for an AF Sensor and labor as a first try at a fix. Dealer says his muffler guy tells him "no way the cat's bad...its gotta be the sensor."

 

[0macman0]

Yeah I'm just over 80k.

They've offered to pay for an AF Sensor and labor as a first try at a fix. Dealer says his muffler guy tells him "no way the cat's bad...its gotta be the sensor."

He's crazy. A sensor that is not sensing right can't throw that code it is impossible. That code is thrown when two functioning sensors closely follow the same reading up and down for a sustained period of time.

 

[ckehoe31]

I have 2012 QX56, 75K miles, and the CEL light has come on three or four times but eventually went out. It took about 12-14 days to turn off. The times I had the codes pulled it was for p0420. I had the timing chain recall performed back in July. Is it normal for the code to just turn off by itself? The dealer told me that once the code is thrown that it will stay on and won’t go off on its own.
Should I take it to the dealer the next time I verify that it is p0420 code?
Thanks in advance.
Chris

______________________________

 

[pjdavep]

what i mean by that is that infiniti was/is recommending 5- 7K miles on oil changes (from what I have read over the early years of this new design) and may people who purchased this would just take out on weekend trips, maybe a fancy grocery hauler, or soccer mom vehicle. drive it 10 miles ish, not letting the oil warm up and lube things properly, and things of that nature.

And what do the majority of people do? Stretch the oil changes to the max and then get it changed. My dealer told me a lot of cars were coming in at 7500-9000+ mile intervals!

TallahasseeQX, as far as bad cats causing bad gas mileage, we really don't know if that's the case for the QX. Bad cats have different effects on different cars. I reset my MPG reading this morning on the way to church. Definitely city driving, less than ten lights, averaged a speed of a little less than 40mph, and MPG just over 15. Sounds like that's quite the contrast to yours. My wife will be doing a road trip tomorrow, so I'll have her reset it again and see what the highway mileage reports.

Later,
pjdavep

I have 2012 QX56, 75K miles, and the CEL light has come on three or four times but eventually went out. It took about 12-14 days to turn off. The times I had the codes pulled it was for p0420. I had the timing chain recall performed back in July. Is it normal for the code to just turn off by itself? The dealer told me that once the code is thrown that it will stay on and won’t go off on its own.
Should I take it to the dealer the next time I verify that it is p0420 code?
Thanks in advance.
Chris

You should get it taken care of BEFORE you go beyond the 80K federal emissions warranty because after that point Infiniti won't offer any financial help. The dealer knows that the M45 and QX56 have the cats go bad prematurely, so don't let them off the hook if they try to play dumb. My 0420 cat code went on and off for a few months before it stayed on for good.

Later,
pjdavep

 

[0macman0]

I have 2012 QX56, 75K miles, and the CEL light has come on three or four times but eventually went out. It took about 12-14 days to turn off. The times I had the codes pulled it was for p0420. I had the timing chain recall performed back in July. Is it normal for the code to just turn off by itself? The dealer told me that once the code is thrown that it will stay on and won’t go off on its own.
Should I take it to the dealer the next time I verify that it is p0420 code?
Thanks in advance.
Chris

You can verify the code before going to the dealer. You can google the procedure, but in a nutshell
1.Start with the car off (engine remains off entire procedure)
2. Turn the ignition to on, do not start engine, wait 3 seconds
3. Within 5 seconds, floor and release the gas pedal 5 times
4. Wait ten seconds, the floor gas pedal for 10 seconds.
If you have done it right, at this point the check engine light will flash slowly.
After ten seconds it will start flashing codes. Count the flashes and pauses.

You should get it taken care of BEFORE you go beyond the 80K federal emissions warranty because after that point Infiniti won't offer any financial help. The dealer knows that the M45 and QX56 have the cats go bad prematurely, so don't let them off the hook if they try to play dumb. My 0420 cat code went on and off for a few months before it stayed on for good.

Later,
pjdavep

Ditto under 80K make them pay.

 

[TallahasseeQX]

TallahasseeQX, as far as bad cats causing bad gas mileage, we really don't know if that's the case for the QX. Bad cats have different effects on different cars. I reset my MPG reading this morning on the way to church. Definitely city driving, less than ten lights, averaged a speed of a little less than 40mph, and MPG just over 15. Sounds like that's quite the contrast to yours. My wife will be doing a road trip tomorrow, so I'll have her reset it again and see what the highway mileage reports.

Later,
pjdavep

What would you attribute my awful gas mileage to then? Trust me, I didn't think I was buying a Prius, but 11ish and 15ish ain't even CLOSE to the advertised 14 and 20 (which I knew would be a long shot).

 

[hoaapple]

What would you attribute my awful gas mileage to then? Trust me, I didn't think I was buying a Prius, but 11ish and 15ish ain't even CLOSE to the advertised 14 and 20 (which I knew would be a long shot).

That's not too far from what I get driving my '11. Most of my driving consists of city, which is 11mpg. Mine already has both cats replaced and timing chain taken care of.